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Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Roundtable: “Identity and Change”

By Rueben | April 13, 2017

Tuesday night’s new episode of Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (or is that HYDRA?!) aired on ABC, giving fans even more troubling insights into the world of the framework, how horrible Aida (aka Madame Hydra) has become and just how much she has warped (poor?) Leopold Fitz.

Here is the description of the episode, per the show’s site at ABC:

As Daisy and Simmons struggle to discover an escape route to the real world, the identity of the Inhuman leader of the Resistance is revealed.

Now, join Karen, Roz and Rueben as they discuss their thoughts on what went down in the episode:

So, Daisy got Coulson on board rather quickly. He knew he wasn’t crazy so why did he keep towing the line?

Karen: Well, I think he has a bit of Tahiti left in him, which might be contributing to his confusion. Even in this episode there was a little unhinge-ness here and there. Very “Conspiracy Theory” this episode, eh?

Roz: I think everyone has really drunk the Kool-Aid so he didn’t know what else to do, except weave stories about soap and all that. (Or is that meant to reference the stuff HYDRA wanted to use for all Inhumans?)

Rueben: I have to agree with Roz that he drunk too much of the Kool-Aid. It was still troubling to see him let that kid be removed from his class like that (in last week’s episode) and to be spewing the framework history of the Nazi’s. Maybe he was just waiting for someone (like Daisy) to come along and “wake” him up?

It was great to see Mack with his little girl Hope, wasn’t it? Why do you think May and the Hydra agents went after them when they were clearly supposed to be going after Jemma?

Karen: Is there a little foreshadowing about Mack or his daughter there? Does he have latent inhuman powers? Are they showing that by bringing in his (RIP) lost child? BTW, how screwed up is that? Talk about getting therapy after this…

Roz: I want more of Mack and his daughter, but I desperately want to kick May’s ass for her set up. She’s playing a different game to get to Jemma I’m sure.

Rueben: It was nice to see him with the daughter he lost (how cute was it that he called her “spark plug” by the way?!), but like Karen said, he’s gonna need therapy once they are out of the framework because of having her so embedded in his life within the framework, but not having her in the real world. I’m uncertain as to why they took him and Hope, though, could she be Inhuman [rather than Mack] or was it all just a rouse to slip Daisy up?

In the framework, it really seems that Ward is a good guy, but can they really trust him?

Karen: I think so. There are enough twists in the story. We don’t need him to turn on the “good guys” in order to get another one. I like that he’s on our side in this “pod,” and I want to see how his role pans out.

Roz: Yeah I want to trust him here and I hope it doesn’t come back to bite us all in the ass.

Rueben: I like this version of Ward; but I liked him in season one and we saw how well (NOT!) that went. But perhaps he can only be good in the framework and no where else. But, then again, given the fact he is dead in the real world perhaps this Ward will stay good. Time will tell.

Coulson mentioned that he thinks it’s the blue soap that is mind-controlling all of them. How much of the blue soap has Fitz been huffing to be so totally warped by Aida (aka Madame Hydra)?

Karen: Bleah. AIDA is just terribad. The Darkhold is powerful, and we see this here. Almost nothing can twist Fitz, but the book… well, it sure did a number on him – and quick-like.

Roz: He’s used all the blue soap! But Madame HYDRA is crazy.

Rueben: To say the least, I was unnerved by Aida and Fitz when they walked out from behind all of those “stormtrooper” Hydra soldiers from that plane when they went after Radcliffe. This version of Fitz has definitely been warped 100% by either the soap or Aida. She’s got him so far gone that he can’t be saved. My bigger concern is how that will affect the Fitz in the real world.

So Mace is The Patriot in the framework. I’m guessing he is that world’s version of Captain America without the shield and mask. Do you think he is actually Inhuman in that world or jacked up like in the real one?

Karen: That’s Jeffrey Mace’s alter ego in the comics, he actually took over for Captain America for a time. He had no superhuman powers, but he was an expert in hand-to-hand combat, and had a shield made of enhanced titanium, just like Steve Rogers’ shield. Mace held the title of Captain America for the second longest run, behind Steve Rogers’ main run as the quintessential Cap. *removes nerd hat* To answer the question, I’d like to think they’re using him as he’s used in the comic books.

Roz: I don’t care what he’s supposed to represent, but I like him. Keep fighting the good fight Mace!

Rueben: Thank you, Karen, for the tutorial on Mace and The Patriot. I’m at a disadvantage as I don’t know the comics so I didn’t realize there was a correlation between Captain America and The Patriot. That explains so much to this novice. It was pretty cool to see a strong Mace and I like this version.

Mack agreed to help May to save Hope; I can see his reasoning in that. But if he helps SHIELD as he claimed at the end, 1) who will be safeguarding Hope (or did he bring her with him and we just didn’t see that) and 2) how do we know that isn’t a trick set up by May?

Karen: I’d like to think someone is keeping her safe. His brother maybe? This is most likely a set-up, although I’d love to be surprised by a double-blind.

Roz: I hate double-blinds and I already feel like we live with one now, so I want Hope to be safe and protected. Maybe Mack going to Mace will mean Hope stays with that group of survivors rather than with the rest of the world that HYDRA runs.

Rueben: They showed Jemma and Coulson that SHIELD is taking in Inhumans to protect so maybe that is where Hope is, but I really don’t want Mack to be a plant by May and that he is really there to help. It would just be so horrible if it is a plant.

OMG, just how horrible is Fitz in this world? He killed poor Agnes, tortured Radcliffe and plans to do the same thing to Skye/Daisy. Just how far gone is he?

Karen: So. Frustrating. He’s the worst. I don’t think he’s all the way gone, but how many times is he going to have to go through therapy in order to get over a trauma? Once a season? Fitz was just getting that amazing level of confidence and holding his own on missions. I’d hate to see him being set back once he gets pulled out of this and realizes how awful he was in the framework.

Roz: HE IS THE WORST! He’s fallen hard for the pretty face, that’s for sure.

Rueben: I think I yelled at Fitz as loudly as Jemma did when he pulled that trigger, killing poor, defenseless Agnes. My heart actually ached! This Fitz is so far gone I don’t think there is going to be anyway to get him back; and again, the real world Fitz is going to have so much to deal with when they get them out of the framework. There is no way he is going to be the same after all of that.

Do you think that Aida/Madame Hydra can really make the real world (her Project Looking Glass) disappear so that only the framework exists or can she be stopped somehow?

Karen: Speaking as someone that lives in the “real world,” I’m pretty sure the good guys are gonna win this one, but hey, it’s a Whedon creation, they can be pretty sadistic. *Forever RIP Wash*

Roz: She wants to destroy the universe, but it seems improbable for Madame HYDRA to win this battle against the world that we know.

Rueben: I agree with Karen, this is a Whedon universe and I just really worried about the ramifications of what happened in the framework coming to bite many of the characters in the ass once they get out; and they have to get out before it’s too late. How long can one stay in the framework before it warps them permanently. I so want Roz to be right too? Madame Hydra cannot win this battle.